And, it can be revealed – 295 lawyers, advocates, judges, QCs & prosecutors collectively own more guns in their private collections than even Police Officers – as information now released by Police Scotland reveals 1,079 firearms, shotguns & air weapons in the hands of the legal fraternity - compared to 1,043 firearms and shotguns owned by 327 Police Officers.
The investigation was triggered by a recent case involving firearms offences committed by the Solicitor General For Scotland – Lord Keen of Elie (Richard Keen QC) who was convicted and find £1,000 for breaches of the Firearms Act 1968 after he pleaded guilty by letter to the charge at Edinburgh Sheriff Court on 1 March 2017.
Keen, who once headed a failed legal challenge against the Scottish Government over legislation to speed up pay-outs to asbestos sufferers - was charged after police investigating a break-in at his Edinburgh home found that a 12-bore shotgun had been ‘left outside a secure cabinet’ while Lord Keen and his wife ‘were away on holiday’.
Lord Keen’s conviction for firearms offences, and the widespread ownership of firearms – including handguns - by members of Scotland’s legal fraternity - has drawn interest in the use of guns by Scotland’s wealthy legal establishment - who are known to favour the hunting & shooting set lifestyle with participation at shooting events at home and abroad.
And these are no ordinary weapons owned by Scotland's legal elite.
Shotguns popular with Scotland’s legal eagles - range from the relatively inexpensive to more costly ‘over & under’ & ‘side by side’ barrelled Browning, Beretta, matched pairs of expensive Purdeys and other expensive brands such as Holland & Holland, Army & Navy, and in the case of the Solicitor General for Scotland – a Stephen Grant 12 bore shotgun – which can sell for over £6,000.
Data seen by journalists also reveal ornate ‘Damascus’ etched barrelled weapons, expensive side-lock action shotguns, semi automatic weapons, and presentation piece quality shotguns, well out of reach of most shooting enthusiasts.
In relation to firearms, the legal establishment is similarly tooled up in numbers and quality of guns – ranging from handguns - and smaller .22 and .243 calibre rifles to high calibre firearms purposely designed for deer stalking.
Among the more lethal stocks of weapons owned by the legal fraternity are – according to firearms insiders - double ‘express’ (two barrelled) rifles – primarily designed for ‘taking down’ much larger beasts such as lions, rhino and even elephants.
And, the ownership of silencers for firearms among Scotland’s legal elite - is much more widespread than originally thought.
However, it can be revealed members of the legal fraternity own only 57 silencers for their ‘registered’ firearms - compared with a staggering 216 silencers owned by Police Officers – disclosed in part one of the firearms investigation revealing Police gun ownership.
Information obtained during the investigation has now been clarified by Police Scotland, who disclosed some details in response to a Freedom of Information request.
Police Scotland has revealed 8 Sheriffs and 8 Judges hold a selection of firearms, air weapons and shotguns.
Of the 8 certificates held by Sheriffs, 1 is for firearms, 5 are for shotguns and 2 are for air weapons are held by currently serving Sheriffs, totalling 2 firearms and 10 shotguns.
A further 8 senior ranking judges own a similar mixture of firearms, air weapons and shotguns.
In relation to the eight certificate held by judges, 1 is for firearms, 3 are for shotguns, and 3 are for air weapons, totalling 2 firearms and 5 shotguns.
Curiously - while Police Scotland readily disclosed information in relation to members of the judiciary owning firearms - the Judiciary of Scotland said in response to an FOI request that no member of the judiciary has declared any ownership of firearms or shotguns to either the Scottish Courts & Tribunals Service (SCTS) or the Judicial Office.
The Judicial Office also refused to answer questions on judges’ membership of any hunting or shooting clubs or associations, participation in hunting trips including deerstalking and other firearms related activities within the UK or overseas.
While the judiciary remained tight-lipped on their stack of firearms & shotguns, Police Scotland has also released details on the firearms ownership of Scotland’s legal profession, where paralegals, solicitors, barristers, advocates, QCs and even prosecutors own over a thousand firearms, shotguns and air weapons.
4 paralegal certificate holders - hold 3 shotgun certificates and 2 air weapons certificates, holding a total of 5 shotguns.
6 barrister certificate holders - hold 2 firearms certificates, 4 shotgun certificates and 2 Air weapons certificates – holding between them 9 firearms with a further 3 silencers (sound moderators) and a total of 23 shotguns.
8 QC certificate holders - hold 2 firearms certificates, 8 shotgun certificates and two air weapons certificates – holding 6 firearms along with 2 silencers, and a total of 31 shotguns.
18 Advocate certificate holders - hold 4 firearms certificates, 18 shotgun certificates and 7 air weapons certificates – holding 9 firearms along with 3 silencers, and a total of 26 shotguns.
40 lawyer certificate holders - hold 12 firearms certificates, 25 shotgun certificates and 18 air weapons certificates – holding 55 firearms with 18 silencers and a total of 96 shotguns.
199 solicitor certificate holders - hold 51 firearms certificates, 146 shotgun certificates and 60 air weapons certificates – holding 100 firearms with 31 silencers, and a total of 393 shotguns.
Two court officer certificate holders - hold one firearms certificate and one shotgun certificate. Only one single firearm held is listed in this category.
Police Scotland also disclosed two Crown Office prosecutors of Procurator Fiscal rank hold 2 shotgun certificates, holding three shotguns in total.
It was not possible for Police Scotland to disclose further details of COPFS employees firearms, shotgun or air weapons usage, however it is known COPFS employees ownership of, and involvement with firearms shotguns and other weapons does exist = and to a more significant level than quoted in the Police Scotland FOI response.
Police Scotland also disclosed firearms ownership among Scotland’s political classes at Holyrood.
3 MSP certificate holders - hold 3 firearms certificates, 2 shotgun certificates and 1 air weapon certificates – holding 9 firearms with 3 silencers, and – Police Scotland claim – a total of 24 shotguns according to the FOI disclosure.
One Scottish Government Minister holds 1 shotgun certificate – and is in possession of 3 shotguns.
A further 3 “Members of Parliament” certificate holders - hold 2 shotgun certificates and 1 air weapon certificate, holding a total of 5 shotguns.
And one “Parliamentarian” holds a single shotgun certificate, and is in possession of 8 shotguns.
Police Scotland said it could not provide details of Scottish Government employees due to deficiencies in the SHOGUN database which allows some firearms owners to dodge having their ownership of weapons included in national statistics.
Police Scotland said “SHOGUN does not hold the individual employer details related to an individual certificate holder. The application form 201 requires a work address and contact but work address details are not searchable on the SHOGUN system. Searching occupations which include the word ‘government’ includes local government employees, government inspectors, government officers and investigators. The parameters of the search therefore cannot provide the details required.”
While the figures released by Police Scotland pertain only to numbers of weapons – rather than types and their potency by way of calibre - enquiries by journalists have since established Scotland’s legal elite enjoy generous permissions to hold, and purchase - significant quantities of ammunition for firearms and shotguns – with figures of thousands of rounds kept by certain members of the legal fraternity being commonplace.
Commenting on the information released by Police Scotland, a firearms specialist who did not wish to be named said that while some of the certificate holders may be members of gun clubs and ‘shoot at paper targets’ , it was his understanding most of the weapons held by persons he knew to be members of the legal fraternity - are used for hunting purposes.
There are also claims the figures of firearms and gun ownership among Scotland’s legal establishment may be much higher than stated in the Police Scotland Freedom of Information disclosure - as various weapons such as antique powder propellant type pistols, muskets and rifles are among items thought to be owned by lawyers and others in the legal fraternity – and are often not registered despite some requirements to do so.
The sometimes murky origins of the firearms & shotguns owned by the legal fraternity in Scotland are also drawing curiosity - after a legal source gave an account to journalists in relation to how two expensive shotguns including their leather cases and a set of valuable fishing rods & equipment ended up in the hands of a solicitor after he allegedly took the items from the estate of a deceased client to be valued.
The items were never handed back to the family of the deceased nor were they included in any account of assets of the deceased’s estate.
The Law Society of Scotland, Faculty of Advocates and Crown Office & Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) could not be reached for a statement on their members ownership and usage of firearms and shotguns.
‘KEEN SHOT’ TOP LAW OFFICER CAUGHT WITH HIS GUNS OUT:
IN March 2017, Lord Keen of Elie - the UK government's most senior adviser on Scots law - was fined £1,000 after admitting a firearms offence at Edinburgh Sheriff Court.
Advocate General for Scotland Richard Keen QC pleaded guilty – by letter - to breaching section two of the Firearms Act 1968 by ‘failing to secure a shotgun’.
Police investigating a ‘break-in’ at one of Mr Keen’s properties – a house in Edinburgh - found that the weapon had been left outside a secure cabinet.
Lord Keen, a former chairman of the Scottish Conservative Party, was made a life peer in 2015. He did not appear when the case called at Edinburgh Sheriff Court in March 2017, choosing to plead guilty by letter – thus avoiding a court appearance.
The presiding judge - Sheriff Frank Crowe said: "I do take into account Mr Keen's previous good record and the fact that he admitted his guilt at the outset.
"Nevertheless to hold a firearms certificate is a privilege and there are very strict conditions which have to be adhered to to prevent such weapons falling into the wrong hands.
"There was a potential risk with the shotgun not in the secure cabinet as laid down by the regulations."
The court heard the offence came to light when Police Officers were called to a break-in at one of Lord Keen's properties – an address on Ann Street in Edinburgh - on Hogmanay last year. The court was told Lord Keen and his wife were away on holiday.
Officers searching the property ‘found’ a 12 bore Stephen Grant shotgun in a basement out of its secure cabinet.
Solicitor advocate Simon Catto, representing Lord Keen – told Edinburgh Sheriff Court his client had been out shooting on 27 December.
Mr Catto added on returning home his client had taken the gun to the basement intending to clean it, but had then "forgotten about it through his own carelessness" before leaving on holiday the following day.
Mr Catto said Lord Keen had contacted Police himself on Hogmanay after receiving a mobile phone alert that his alarm system had been triggered.
While the upper floors of the property had been ransacked, the burglars had not entered the basement area, he said.
Mr Catto said: "He's a keen shot, he shoots approximately 10 times per year.
"He has been a shotgun enthusiast for around 25 years and has held a firearms certificate. He is therefore fully aware of what's expected and required of him in terms of the certificate.
"He accepts on this occasion he fell below that."
An investigation of gun ownership in the ranks of Police Officers can be found here: GUNS OF THE LAW: Police Scotland files release details of officers private gun ownership – shotguns, rifles & silencers, Cops also declare recovery of 30 handguns
Well this is a surprise.
ReplyDeleteThe do as I say not as I do brigade caught out by FOI and Police Scotland come up with the goods for a change.
I am surprised by the numbers of lawyers with access to firearms these same lawyers who run to their Law Society claiming some big bad client is after them simply by making a complaint then they get the law out and threaten the wee guy into submission yet as we now see the same lawyers are up to their necks in guns and one thing I am sure many of these gun toting lawyers will readily use their weapons against another person or menace them because they have the power of a gun at their side.
I dont really trust people who own or use guns.We all know why.One minute they are nice to your face then the next they go on a psychotic shooting spree and kill people they have grudges against.
Lawyers hold the greatest grudges against people take my word for it.After they do their time in uni the chip on their shoulder is so big anything is fair game.From the minute you walk into their office they look you over and decide how much they are going to rip you off.If you get in the way of this or write a complaint the gun will be out as soon as look at you.
Remember it takes a certain type of person to own and use a gun.A person who wants to kill and get away with it.Yes that's right.That gun toting lawyer charging you thousands of pounds for wasting your time is a wannabe killer.
And the silencers.Kept handy in the office drawer are they?Disgusting if you think about it.I remember watching the Law Society nutjobs protesting in Edinburgh for more legal aid.And some of them will probably be gun toting killers.Shocking.
Yes indeed.Police Scotland have done us a big service here with this one.People who sit behind desks all day then go home to collections of firearms littered all over the house well could be a mass murder in disguise.
And people go in off the street to employ these prospective killers for help with their legal troubles?They must be mad greedy or stupid.
Hands up who trusts a judge with 8 shotguns?I certainly do not.
You never hear of any lawyer being done for threatening someone with a gun do you.Out of 1000 guns and all their other guns under the bed this must happen more than anyone in the creepy Scottish legal world will admit.
Thanks again for a riveting read.
By the way I read through your foi documents from the Police and the judiciary.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth I believe the judiciary are lying.
They know exactly which judges and sheriffs own guns.
And given the willingness to lie in writing there is a good chance the numbers of guns are higher and ownership among judges and lawyers more widespread than the numbers quoted in the Police response.
I read the other article on the Police gun ownership and the Daily record story.Black markets start at home.The 30 handguns handed in to Police.Did the Police hand them in?
270000 guns running around in Scotland claim the Police in their press release err I mean report
In that case a safe bet the cops and lawyers own a lot more than 2000 guns dreamed up by the cops.
Although you have better detail.I suppose this comes down to a willingness to write the truth instead of writing what someone is telling you to write - which is often not the truth.
Good work.
You can publish the following:
ReplyDeleteThere was an incident in your old neck of the woods where a solicitor's son and his friends took his father's shotguns and took turns to shoot at a dog they tied to a fence.They eventually killed the animal but only after it had suffered terrible wounds.Some farm animals fell victim to the same thugs and had to be destroyed.I understand the farmer reported the incident.The boy and his friends were not charged as law is in the family.The solicitor's son owns shotguns himself is currently studying for a law degree.One of the relatives works for the Crown.A well known nut.
what kind of scum does this to a dog and gets to be a lawyer? oh yes I forgot half the industry is full of reprobates so suppose shouldnt be surprised they are into animal cruelty I will be spreading this far and wide
ReplyDelete@ 29 August 2017 at 02:17
ReplyDeleteValid thoughts...
There are many firearms users who do abide by the law and use their weapons responsibly however as you point out there can be a certain element of gun obsession which does creep in to certain users.
This is an ongoing investigation into firearms ownership and usage by the legal profession, however as a journalist, I was personally shocked at some of the types of weapons which are owned and used by some members of the legal profession.
Some of these same leading lights who burn up legal aid and spend their days arguing about access to justice then go on twitter and go ooo ahh about animal cruelty after blasting away at anything that moves - and according to one gamekeeper on a well known hunting estate - they leave a lot of wounded animals which have to be "finished off" by someone else.
More to follow.
@ 29 August 2017 at 11:02
Would like to know more about the horrific case you refer,get in touch via the blog email.
Referencing several unpublished comments, views are noted and the information will be looked into.
In ref to a message @ 09:55 the answer is yes and the case is certainly worthy of wider media coverage.Please send in further details via your preferred route.
Hello Peter I saw your comment as I was about to post a comment are you still there?
ReplyDeletecan you say who are the msps who own all the guns at the parliament?
This is shocking what is going on here and any idea who are the lawyers who own the silencers??
This is a total outrage and has to be stopped!how come handguns are owned by lawyers??They are supposed to be banned after Dunblane!
@ 29 August 2017 at 12:30
ReplyDeleteAt this time the MSPs who own shotguns have not been identified by Police Scotland in the FOI disclosure nor would it be responsible to do so unless the MSPs wish to come forward on their own.
No identities have officially been released by Police Scotland in relation to owners of silencers or certain types of weapons, however there are some surprising names among the shooting fraternity of the legal profession, and this is not exclusively male ...
Handguns are not actually banned.There are mandatory sentences in place for possession of handguns but it seems certain parts of society outwith the criminal element find a way to own an array of handguns, registered or unregistered ... and if found out claim they are being held for "self defence" which is the only real purpose of a handgun.
women lawyers with guns too eh and the Law Society presents their female contingent as being honest as the day is long and at one with peace and harmony
ReplyDeleteyou are correct about handguns on the loose I heard of a cop parading around with one at a fancy dinner in Glasgow honesty dont know if it was real or replica but mate said cop said it was real and showed it off
ReplyDeletePeter I wish you could do a live webchat with one of the newspapers or something live one day so we can hear the truth about what goes on in the ghastly world of Scottish legal mafia all we have to rely on is your blog which is the best source out there but would also be good to hear from you because you know all about what goes on look at this guns issue no one in the police or legal mafia wanted us ever to know about it but you are brave enough to publish all the information and evidence which is so good and backs up everything no wonder they must hate you so much.Brave man keep up the sterling work!
ReplyDeleteThanks for answering my questions.
ReplyDeleteWhoever these msps are they should declare their interest in guns.
Why would anyone want 8 shotguns and if someone goes to these msps with an issue about guns are they really going to help their constituents if the issues or complaints are against guns?
I suppose msps like everyone else have hobbies and it could be target practice except shotguns are not really used for target practice are they more hunting and I thought our parliament is against blood sports and hunting?
You said lawyers are faking outrage over animal cruelty then go shoot animals themselves well this is disgusting the kind of double face we must expect from lawyers.
I now agree with the first comments about them being killers in the making.
Whoever did that to the dog in the other comment should be named and shamed for life they are evil of the worst kind.
Should avoid giving them your money they are not worth it.
Still there Peter?thanks for writing this up mate!great posting and get those guns taken off those evil bastard lawyers they are supposed to be campaigning for justice not blowing elephants to bits bunch of flaming murderers the lot of them cant stand people with guns either you can tell straight away they sound like right nutters fresh out of a hitler rally
ReplyDeleteInteresting to note you don't wish to name the MSPs although I take your point given the crime ridden Scotland we live in - even if the loony Police Sturgeon Scotland keep saying crime is at an all time low bs.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts - We should be told.
Exposure in the press may give them food for thought about continuing their blood lust in another non public funded job and put someone in their place who wants to do work for real people instead of the landed gentry and killers.
@ 29 August 2017 at 12:49
ReplyDeleteThis could go well in a headline ...contact the blog with more derails.
@ 29 August 2017 at 12:53
Good idea .. one day perhaps, and thanks for the compliments re the blog.
This is of course, a team effort and those who do speak out and contact journalists are also to be commended for their bravery in assisting transparency, and helping those who may suffer injustice.
@ 29 August 2017 at 12:59
Was talking to a source who indicates some of the MSPs shotguns could be for clay pigeon shooting ... will look at this more later.
@ 29 August 2017 at 13:08
Time will tell on politicians gun ownership, however the terminology used by those in the SHOGUN register as to their employment and the varying terms used is also of interest as there are clear attempts by many in the legal fraternity, public bodies, politics and other areas to conceal the nature of their employment status from the SHOGUN database statistics which are available through Freedom of Information requests to Police Scotland ...
Very good.
ReplyDeleteQuestion.Why do lawyers judges advocates qcs want thousands of guns?
Answer.Because they want to kill living things.And as the first comment points out GET AWAY WITH IT.
evil scum who shot the dog who is the scum now going to be a lawyer
ReplyDeleteGood you also publish the evidence otherwise Law Society et all would deny every word.
ReplyDeleteBe careful PoliceScotland are not using you to lower the numbers of firearms in Scotland although have to say I am all for taking guns away from all the lawyers and Police.
I dont see why either should have firearms or shotguns in their private ownership and the judges owning guns are the worst.Surrender them now m'luds.
Clay pigeon shooting is an excuse to stock up on guns.Nothing less.
This is Scotland not America.Take all these guns in and ban silencers.
Time will tell on politicians gun ownership, however the terminology used by those in the SHOGUN register as to their employment and the varying terms used is also of interest as there are clear attempts by many in the legal fraternity, public bodies, politics and other areas to conceal the nature of their employment status from the SHOGUN database statistics which are available through Freedom of Information requests to Police Scotland ...
ReplyDelete29 August 2017 at 13:23
Peter
Are you saying Police Scotland are allowing shotgun and firearms certificate holders to enter ill defined terms of their employment to conceal their firearms/shotgun ownership from national statistics?
If so this is an absolute scandal
@ 29 August 2017 at 14:05
ReplyDeleteYes, this is exactly what is going on.
There appear to be no standardised definitions of employment and firearms/shotgun certificate applicants are knowingly allowed to enter any description of their employment they feel defines what they do.
For instance solicitors are able to enter a number of terms, according to insiders ... and this conveniently reduces the number of firearms, shotguns and air weapons disclosed in statistics related to their respective professions.
Hence reasons to suspect the numbers of actual firearms ownership in the legal fraternity and other professions is much higher than disclosed in the FOI response.
This adds to the calls for judges to register all of their extra-judicial interests. Would a shooting judge be likely to take firearms licensing breaches seriously or would they tend to minimise them as Keen did when he left his gun lying about and went swanning off on holiday. Good article.
ReplyDeleteWritten with Police cooperation?
ReplyDeletePerhaps Police Scotland finally got fed up of being called corrupt by the biggest gang of corrupt crooks in the world aka Scotland's legal profession.
You should get onto them about these search terms and make sure there are proper defined occupations which must be entered.
Remember the term "solicitor" is protected in law so anyone who is a solicitor should be required by law to stick to this terminology instead of calling themselves legal something.
Keep up the good work Peter.One of the few journalists left who takes this lot on and good to see it.
I would like to be a fly on the wall at Police Scotland today.
ReplyDeleteLawyers instinctively attack anyone who criticises their behavior or exposes their very odd lifestyle choices in this case gun thuggery.
PS will be roasted by the pro gun lawyers for handing out this level of information because as one of the earlier comments correctly states the Law Society puts forward their lawyers as being innocent little lambs not firearm wielding murderers who nip out for a murderous shooting spree across the grouse moors or nearest field.
I wouldn't be surprised if you get some gun threats over this one Peter.Many of those gun enthusiasts are lunatics usually very right wing and a lot of them into serious mental and physical abuse of one kind or another. Just the qualities you would expect from a solicitor attracted to guns.
Pardon me while I snigger at remarks made by my colleagues re what the court heard about the 'break in' at the rear :D
ReplyDeleteIs that what they call a Stephen Grant now? lol
Half the guns owned by lawyers are stolen from their clients either after they die or taken along with remaining assets to pay for fake legal fees.
ReplyDeleteThe Police keep quiet about it but they will be well aware of the origins of these guns given the serial numbers and former owners all kept in records no one acknowledges exist.
Personally I'd say there are more than 5000 guns in the legal profession at the very least.
Saw on your twitter feed although I heard your name mentioned in the office from 9 this morning and saw your blog across several screens.
ReplyDeleteDoubtless several Glasgow solicitors will be chucking their illicit handguns into the Clyde this week.
The fur coat and nae nickers Edinburgh end will find one of their own to squirrel them away for now.
have to admit if I thought my lawyer is into guns I wouldnt be using him will ask around coz am NOT paying for the hunting set lawters to kill animals
ReplyDeleteGood posting kid always an adventure watching your blog love it!Zany lawyers and their guns gotta hand them in!
ReplyDeleteOff topic, so need to post this, for info only.
ReplyDeleteSaw mention of "yet another UK Law Society firm has been named in the explosive criminal “standard of proof” prosecution files which are currently “held in custody” at Scotland Yard."
Thought it might be of interest given that it also apparently involves the "parallel Duke of Sutherland Trust multi-billion dollar corporate identity theft offshore tax fraud bribery scandal".
Info at;
http://conspiracycase.blogspot.co.uk/
http://carroll-foundation-trust.com/softwares/smithwilliamson/
seems peter is correct about numbers of guns much higher than Police are admitting had a chat with someone today who named a few lawyers and advocates who go shooting and told me one of them got off the hook for shooting at a beater who crossed his path!
ReplyDeletewhat the hell are the cops doing allowing all these guns in the legal brigade anyway they must be dishing out licenses like smarties half of the lawyers are crooks anyway who in their right mind will allow such people to own as many guns as this
When is Police Nicola Scotland coming out to defend gun ownership in the lawyer brigade? Lawyers can have thousands of guns but not the public eh Nicola? you are running a really corrupt government now and the cops are just as bad
yes we always have this image mainly spun by ridiculous television drama about lawyers are too busy helping in the fight for justice to be told they are awash with guns from ear to ear.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the very evasive reply from the Police I have the feeling there are many more guns in the hands of lawyers and from reading the numbers I'd say you are looking at hundreds of handguns not only rifles and then there will be those who obtain guns from their criminal clients on the sly or from bent coppers.
There are plenty bent coppers on the loose in Scotland as we know because Sheriff Robert Dickson said so in open court and who is anyone to dispute a sheriff because he should know how crooked the cops are because he has to sit there and listen to them pretend they are reading from what is actually an empty notebook.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13412139.Police__judiciary_clash_after_sheriff_s__sweeping_generalisation__on_force_corruption/
A sheriff who suggested endemic police corruption has sparked a rare row between Scotland's police and judiciary.
Sheriff Robert Dickson last year jailed a constable who tried to cover up the drink driving of a fellow officer.
But after doing so he hinted that the crime may have been part of a wider "perceived culture that officers are willing to prevent the arrest of a colleague".
See?
Bent coppers and bent PFs too because the PF knew exactly what was going on.
Honestly when I first read the story I thought you were having a go at guns but then I realised you were only reporting an foi and the strange story of Richard Keen and his shotgun.I saw what someone else said above about that and have to agree the court heard make believe on that one.
Be careful though because the gun brigade are a right bunch of evil scumbags and it runs in the family as I saw in the comments further up about the bastards who killed the dog.They usually have weapons all over their homes businesses cars even some carry them outside or have to carry some other kind of weapon to calm their crave for shooting at anything they fancy.
I know a retired copper in England who told me they had to raid a house after there was some kind of bang reported by a neighbour.Turned out he had mortar rounds a launcher 2 gpmgs kalashnikovs over 20 hand guns about 40 rifles and over 30,000 rounds of bullets along with loads of parts for guns tools and a lathe he used to make barrels himself.They reckoned he held them for crooks and others who didnt want people to know they used guns and this man's house was in a quiet little street you would never think anything like that was going on.
The house was full of German ww2 nazi gear and medals he did a big trade in that too but got off with a short sentence because he had a relative high up in the army.My mate told me there were no tv cameras or press outside his door and no one knew the raid even happened.The first time it was up in court they kept it so quiet it was a court recorder who heard it to keep it away from a judge and the papers.
I bet the cops up in Scotland are having a laugh at lawyers now it turns out they own more guns than the cops themselves!Maybe that's why they put out the foi in the first place!
This morning had it confirmed my own lawyer who handles my company business is a big hunting and shooting buff been away to Africa too with his guns according to an ex secretary of his and shot lions he brags about it all the time had a picture gallery of his kills until the public turned against murdering animals for a hobby so I am taking away all my legal business from him and his firm this week.
ReplyDeleteWill let you know if there are any problems because I want to expose this sod after I read the reports in the newspapers about the lawyers and their guns.
@ 31 August 2017 at 10:38
ReplyDeleteThanks, might be worth contacting the blog with further info on the Africa trip as the animal protection charity who wanted the information made public are interested in gun ownership and usage.Will pass along any material you send on.
Re several threatening comments, this blog does not publish comments threatening journalists however the material can be passed on to Police if such threats continue. Remember, all sections of the community are entitled to their point of view.
If what appears to be gun owners are threatening to use their weapons against dissenting sections of the public who dislike guns then this is clearly a matter for the authorities who were quite happy to publish the information on firearms ownership before the blog reported on this story, which also appeared in the national press in relation to a surrendering of firearms.
Of course if the particular lawyer broke the storage law then of course they should be punished but methinks you are treating all lawyers and solicitors and especially gun owners with the same brush and not jusging based on individual cases.
ReplyDeleteJoin the club says one cynical old journo!
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear of the threats.Surprising as I talked to a Police source and he said PS are thoroughly happy with the publication in the newspapers and by you and welcome any debate on reducing the numbers of guns in Scotland/UK.
However as you have now discovered people who own or use guns do not tolerate dissenting views.I will provide you with the following example of which I am sure some of your own friends in the industry may recognise.
A colleague of mine in the newsroom (I wont identify our paper) wrote a report on gun ownership in certain levels of society and the very next day he received batches of threats by email and to his phone with quotes such as "blow you and your family apart"
As is the case phone calls and internet postings anonymous or under assumed identities can always be traced.
The English force dealing with the complaint identified the individuals concerned who also posted under a number of different identities on internet gun forums and what I suppose are their own version of pro-gun websites.
The individuals posted comments along the lines of all "protestors should be executed and their assets taken by the state to pay for the bullets used".
Another comment written by one of same individuals who used multiple identities advocated "sterilising people who are anti-gun so they cant have any kids"
Several people were charged.An interesting selection of occupations from local council employees to a paralegal and several self styled gamekeepers,former forces types (some of whom it turned out were never in the forces) and a host of unemployed benefits claimants working on the side. Three of the individuals who were identified making threats were later convicted of distributing child pornography online.
So as you see those who dislike the issue of guns being talked about in public have interesting lifestyle choices of their own which flout the law.
And to be even handed as you are working with an Animal charity on this issue it could be said you have an interest yourself although I rather suspect most people will commend you. I myself enjoy watching animals run around without being shot by silly buggers who believe they can do as they please with a gun so I am with you on this also.
I thought your own report was very even handed and I note you also defended responsible gun ownership in one of your comments.To be honest I would not have bothered given what I have seen in my time but then as a journo of 25 years that's my own opinion.You may publish this comment.I will be in touch with you for some more details as I too am interested in this subject.
Keep safe!
Stephen Woolf @ 31 August 2017 at 11:58
ReplyDeleteThere are other cases currently being investigated for further reports in the national press, this article mainly reported on the statistics alone which Police Scotland disclosed in terms of transparency and provided guidance on the subject.
The article also referenced an incident where valuable firearms belonging to a deceased client were misappropriated by a senior solicitor and the value of, or items themselves not returned to his widow and relatives. This is not an isolated incident in terms of firearms and shotguns going missing from residual estates and their values not being realised for confirmation of estate to HMRC and bequests as per wills.
@ 31 August 2017 at 12:34
Thanks ...very interesting, keen to discuss what happened regarding your colleague and the threats, contact the blog or through known protocols ..
I suppose we cannot please all sides of a debate. Will take advice on how to deal with threats and how the material should be reported.
To me the story ended up more about how the legal fraternity are more easily able to obtain firearms including handguns than non legal industry such as estate employees and even farmers who also spoke to me about the article.
One farmer who spoke on this told how he had to put up with a firearms inspection which took over an hour and those attending spent over 20 mins trying to persuade him to give up his licenses and there are other similar cases ... still looking into this for an article as it does show double standards.
To compare a letter has been provided signed by a senior Police officer to an extremely wealthy banking tycoon in which the Police Officer congratulates the banker on his collection of firearms after the top cop was given a tour of the large house and estate.
The animal protection charity provided some information and were happy with the results. This could relate to a case where a recusal did not occur with regard to a firearms incident involving animal cruelty and a judge who does appear to hold conflicts of interest.
I was given the impression Police felt good to talk up this subject and sources gave considerable input. Will discuss when you make contact.
This article is now closed to further comments.
Thanks Peter.
ReplyDeleteIf I can get one more in before your comment embargo.
Interested to read of your reply to Steven Wolf re the misappropriation of firearms from what I take it to be wills and the references to the banker and the farmer cases.
I have sent you screenshots of a debate you may wish to pass onto Police Scotland re the reports.Several names of alleged gun fans or owners worth checking up.
Remember those with the loudest voices in an area such as the gun lobby are more often than not caught out by false claims, financial impropriety or other activities as referred to in my earlier comment.
Take threats seriously.My colleague did and at the same time put a few crooks behind bars who brought the attention on themselves.
I am guessing some people are hot and bothered about this post and not the one about Police figures am I right?Must be as this is the first time I have ever seen gun statistics for the legal profession.
ReplyDeleteProbably because Police often required to be more responsible in their private gun ownership than those in other walks of life who believe themselves to be above the law.More to lose and reflects badly on their respective Police Force.Also press hound Police convicted of/sacked for any reason so this must be about lawyers.
I never gave this much thought until seeing these gun statistics for the legal profession.Something not really talked about openly probably because it does not fit in with the manicured image of a British/Scottish lawyer.
Remember Mr Saunders in London shooting from his window? The Beeb coverage made the Police out to be the villains and castigated the Met for acting too harshly yet it was the reverse.Police doing their job protecting community and themselves then suffer attacks for taking a decision to shoot.The level of publicity attacking the Police on the Sanders case was extraordinary and all because Saunders was a barrister.If it had been Bob the builder there would have been little coverage or outrage and the shooter written off as a gun fantasist like Raoul Moat.
Daily Mail covered Saunders case http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313662/Mark-Saunders-inquest-Hellish-descent-barrister-shot-dead-police.html
Binge drinking, cocaine and escort agencies: Hellish descent of barrister shot dead by police after armed siege
A barrister shot dead by police in an armed siege had descended into a drunken hell of binge drinking and cocaine abuse, it emerged yesterday.
Mark Saunders, 32, died in a volley of bullets fired by police marksmen who surrounded his £2.2million Chelsea home after he started blasting out of a kitchen window with a shotgun.
Time the CPS & Police cracked down on smuggling and these gun lobbyists who are literally making a killing.Worth an idea to require gun owners to submit copies of their social media postings along with their firearms license applications.This already happens in areas of recruitment so I do not see why same should not apply to firearms license holders.Police and doctors already have powers to verify online habits I cannot think of a more deserving situation for such powers as firearms licensing.
A former colleague who had to deal with firearms licensing and inspections often said he found the majority of gun owners as nice as pie on the day of inspection but as soon as your back was turned the knives were out.He also reported concerns in relation to fac holders telling fibs on the quantity of ammunition in storage.When our area looked into it we reckoned over half of gun owners in our force area held much larger stocks but the investigation was shelved for fear of the press picking up the story.One confiscation down to the investigation resulted in over fifty thousand rounds recovered from a man who only had two rifles on his fac and permission to hold 500 rounds.I remember the day of the raid.We had to call around to locate someone to take the recovered evidence.The items were handed over to a bomb disposal unit to store as there was so much of it and in varying calibre.Obviously holding for others.Although he did give statements on other firearms holders which went in his favour,led to recovery of a wider array of guns and ammunition.One of these involved a County Court judge and a revolver he claimed he could not live without otherwise would have to give up his position on the bench.Kept it by his bedside and we were sure he took it to his work on a regular basis.He was not charged but did retire a few months later.A very angry chap.Wrote many letters to our Chief Constable asking for officers to be sacked for doing their job.Full marks to Police Scotland for publishing the information.Must be the first positive headline this year for the Scots!
ReplyDeleteThere was a lot of corruption allowed at the Faculty of Advocates between 2007 to 2014 and I have records of it cash in hand payments the lot but no way am I giving it to any national newspapers because they will run to Keen first and then not print it
ReplyDelete@ 4 September 2017 at 22:03
ReplyDeleteSend it in via the blog email or by preferred route.
I find it both disturbing and sinister that any judge.solicitor/police officer/ should possess a silencer.
ReplyDeleteEqually unsettling is the fact that Scotland's Judges have kept their ownership of weapons hidden and had not declared any ownership of firearms or shotguns to either the Scottish Courts & Tribunals Service (SCTS) or the Judicial Office.
Likewise the 'inconsistency' of the record concerning two court officer certificate holders - one firearm certificate and one shotgun certificate while only one single firearm held is listed in this category speaks volumes of the secrecy in which the legal profession shrouds itself.
Lastly, but by no means least, the example of one “Parliamentarian” who holds a single shotgun certificate, yet possesses 8 shotguns is almost certainly only the tip of the iceberg.
Very good you obviously got at the gun runners with these two stories and I left a comment on the one about Police silencers.Funny thing the legal mafia do not want it known they are big gun owners too.You know what kind of mentality comes with owning guns right?Well does this fit in with the carefully spun lies about how innocent the legal mafia are?Not very.My favourite blog forever!
ReplyDeletethe 'prosecution' was for other reasons so says ex copfs rather than for true circumstances of firearm/shotgun
ReplyDeleteThe potential rewards, however, are high.
ReplyDeleteA well known fact persons who keep loaded guns have something to hide and something to fear
ReplyDeletehmm this is interesting and way off the public image of lawyers.What do they need all the guns and silencers for?Glad I dont live in Scotland although now you have me thinking about English lawyers are doing same!
ReplyDeleteGood way of explaining, and good post to take facts on the topic of my presentation topic,
ReplyDeletewhich i am going to present in academy.