tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post4084891940030227951..comments2024-03-24T23:01:57.640+00:00Comments on The Justice Diaries: McKenzie Friends for Scotland still a way to go as Holyrood seeks clarity from Lord President on guidance, use & entitlements for court usersUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-505700659252190382010-06-22T22:12:22.099+01:002010-06-22T22:12:22.099+01:00QCPF @ 22 June 2010 16:59
Thanks for your comment...QCPF @ 22 June 2010 16:59<br /><br />Thanks for your comment, which I agree with in its entirety ... getting rid of the Master Policy and those who run it, insurers, and even the Law Society itself will help get to the root of the problems clients face when trying to sue negligent lawyers ...<br /><br />However, the Master Policy has many supporters, including it would seem, the Scottish Government itself (who use the same insurance services provided by Marsh & RSA to the legal profession) ... clients, and consumers in general need to be made more aware and wary of dealing with solicitors who are insured by the Master Policy & Marsh ... <br /><br />Personally I would advocate a boycott of any solicitor insured by the Master Policy as a starting point ..Diary of Injusticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00697476580161690118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-19623698943406189602010-06-22T16:59:41.494+01:002010-06-22T16:59:41.494+01:00Get rid of the Master Insurance Policy (here after...Get rid of the Master Insurance Policy (here after referred to as MIP) ran by the Law Society of Scotland, Marsh Insurance Brokers and Royal Sun Alliance Insurance. This may go some way to creating a more level playing field whereby lawyers would be willing to take on board clients with a genuine grievance involving an opposing negligent / incompetent law firm, lawyers or lawyer that have cost that business millions of pound in revenue, there core business and the running up of vast pettifogging fees threw the stringing out of unneeded negligent /incompetent work.<br /> Litigants involved in the Scottish court system only need McKenzie Friends because they can’t trust or beleave in law firms, lawyers or their various partners due to the fact that it is not in the interest of any law firm to help a client sue another law firm or individual lawyer/partner due to the MIP.<br />The MIP is the compulsory Professional Indemnity Insurance arrangement which creates a closed shop for all Scottish solicitors working in private practice. You cannot practice as a lawyer without being party to the MIP. The law society will not give you a certificate allowing you to practice as a lawyer unless you pay into the MIP. Thus insuring that no solicitor will help a client sue another lawyer. <br /> Claims are handled by the Master Policy insurers Royal & Sun Alliance, & Marsh UK whose pockets are so deep it insures (excuse the pun) that they will hold you up in court until you run out of money, go mad and/or die, or perhaps all three.<br />This insurance only provides cover of up to £2 million for any one claim, above that amount individual partners of the law firm are personally liable, doubling insuring that no solicitor will help a client sue another lawyer in Scotland. Many business contract run into the 10s if not the100s of millions pounds so what use is a £2million fund if your lawyer costs you 5, 10, 50 or 100 million pounds of your personal or business wealth. <br /> In short using the protection MIP of the Law Society of Scotland to sue a negligent lawyer is impossible. You would have to use a McKenzie Friend to help you as they would be uninfluenced or should that be uninfected by the MIP.<br />Occasionally the Law Society of Scotland will throw a small one man/woman band lawyer to the wolves by striking them off and allowing them to go to jail if/when they get caught ripping off a clients estate or business but the majority of the big robbers…oopps I meant practices get protection from prosecution or exposure by staling any litigant under such umbrellas as the MIP or vexatious litigant procedures.QCPFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-4421782723074694762010-02-22T09:40:05.295+00:002010-02-22T09:40:05.295+00:00Margo is certainly the star of this debate and tel...Margo is certainly the star of this debate and telling it as it is.Why cant we just do this ??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-84339065342169262502010-02-22T02:51:05.284+00:002010-02-22T02:51:05.284+00:00Good luck Peter !Good luck Peter !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-74945044649383561592010-02-22T02:07:08.770+00:002010-02-22T02:07:08.770+00:00I am just so disgusted at the law in Scotland afte...I am just so disgusted at the law in Scotland after reading this blog.I feel very sorry for you all having to live under judicial dictatorship where someone cant even bring a friend to court.Disgusting and beneath contempt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-3538324240678834892010-02-21T23:37:17.847+00:002010-02-21T23:37:17.847+00:00I am sure this is being delayed just so no one can...I am sure this is being delayed just so no one can really use it.How sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-45882888810379971862010-02-21T21:55:10.756+00:002010-02-21T21:55:10.756+00:00# Anonymous @ 11.26pm
Yes ... you can.
# Anonymo...# Anonymous @ 11.26pm<br /><br />Yes ... you can.<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 3.47pm<br /><br />The same happens in any field, I suppose, even with solicitors & advocates .. its just that if they say the wrong thing, the court is supposed to bring them to heel, and of course, clients can complain to the Law Society, Faculty of Advocates or the SLCC .. and we all know how useful those three organisations are !<br /><br />However I do admit there may be problems with giving a McKenzie Friend a right of audience as you point out ... as one cannot be allowed to spoil it for all.<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 6.37pm<br /><br />I dont think the Scottish legal system can manage much which is not in its own interest ...<br /><br />Bringing in McKenzie Friends to Scotland is, I can assure you, a team effort.<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 8.17pm<br /><br />No, that's too fast !Diary of Injusticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00697476580161690118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-54030896704270025422010-02-21T20:17:31.987+00:002010-02-21T20:17:31.987+00:00I've been reading your blog all day.Very inter...I've been reading your blog all day.Very interesting! Reads like an episode of 24!<br /><br />Keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-73567285385321468922010-02-21T18:37:49.979+00:002010-02-21T18:37:49.979+00:00I agree with those who are saying this issue is go...I agree with those who are saying this issue is going on for too long before action is taken.I looked up McKenzie Friends on the web and basically it comes from one court action in 1970.<br /><br />Can we not even manage that in Scotland in 2010 ? Pathetic to say the least and well our legal system must be really screwed when we have to rely on a blogger to get a change in the law !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-57312333737178772402010-02-21T15:47:51.520+00:002010-02-21T15:47:51.520+00:00Peter.
With all due respect to Brian Gill and his ...Peter.<br />With all due respect to Brian Gill and his review he cannot have any actual experience of McKenzie Friends because as you point out so well McKenzie Friends were never allowed in Scotland up to now.<br /><br />I still think its a bad idea to give McKenzie Friends a right of audience.I'm sure you realise the problems created by allowing a McKenzie Friend to address the court.Get one or more very poor McKenzie Friends and it ruins it for the rest of us.No thank you.I have appeared for a litigant as a McKenzie Friend and needed no opportunity to address the court.Giving a McKenzie Friend a right of audience is in my opinion very wrong and will lead as I said before to trouble later on.<br /><br />Anyway why are we debating this Peter you know very well Lord Woolman must have gritted his teeth to allow the McKenzie Friend in the case you refer,probably because you have been giving them all such a hard time with headlines.<br /><br />Just get the seating arrangements fixed (sit beside,not on top,below or behind) and get the court system moving so you have a framework in Scotland where someone can walk into a court building and find out all they need to know about McKenzie Friends.<br /><br />I'm sure you can manage that after the great change you have already achieved !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-36450972659572422302010-02-21T11:26:45.125+00:002010-02-21T11:26:45.125+00:00So we can use a McKenzie Friend now in Scotland, r...So we can use a McKenzie Friend now in Scotland, right Peter ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-39456146328162992372010-02-21T00:35:05.553+00:002010-02-21T00:35:05.553+00:00last comment
EXACTLY !last comment<br /><br />EXACTLY !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-15889640779981494032010-02-20T21:17:14.099+00:002010-02-20T21:17:14.099+00:00Dont you feel the parliament is kind of asking the...Dont you feel the parliament is kind of asking the same questions again & again ?<br /><br />Pretty appalling really after 40 years of no one really writing about it until now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-77207321122787679592010-02-20T17:33:06.776+00:002010-02-20T17:33:06.776+00:00# Anonymous @ 4.10pm
Lord Gill's Civil Courts...# Anonymous @ 4.10pm<br /><br />Lord Gill's Civil Courts Review recommended granting rights of audience to McKenzie Friends, although yes, I'm sure there will be the odd occasion ... just as there are with solicitors & advocates, when a McKenzie Friend addressing the court will stray from the expected path of what is said ...<br /><br />The Civil Courts Review reference to Lord Gill's recommendation is in Volume 1, here "51.If the court considers that it would be helpful in any case, a person without a right of audience (a‘McKenzie friend’)should be permitted to address the court on behalf of a party litigant." <br /><br /># Anonymous @ 4.50pm<br /><br />Strike fear ... as in cause them to worry about not being able to charge high fees to potential clients who may use a free McKenzie Friend instead ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 5.11pm<br /><br />I imagine we are waiting while the legal establishment come up with yet more excuses to delay the wider use of McKenzie Friends in Scotland ...Diary of Injusticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00697476580161690118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-65553097275164451962010-02-20T17:11:12.817+00:002010-02-20T17:11:12.817+00:00I recall that in the Scotsman article reporting th...I recall that in the Scotsman article reporting the first use of a McKenzie Friend in Scotland a member of the Faculty of Advocates stated that;<br /><br />1. We have never had McKenzie<br /> Friends in Scotland and any<br /> suggestion to the contrary is<br /> reminiscient of Soviet<br /> revisionism.<br /><br />2. The Courts have in their <br /> power - as matters presently<br /> stand - to grant this access <br /> as a statuatory entitlement<br /> without the need for any<br /> external approval.<br /><br />So why are we still waiting?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-23496268920987876822010-02-20T16:50:06.114+00:002010-02-20T16:50:06.114+00:00McKenzie Friends must strike fear into lawyers for...McKenzie Friends must strike fear into lawyers for them to be delaying it all this time.Lawyers are Criminals !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-24258126449709528582010-02-20T16:10:58.053+00:002010-02-20T16:10:58.053+00:00I am sure some of you are on the wrong track with ...I am sure some of you are on the wrong track with regards to rights of audience and McKenzie Friends.<br /><br />A McKenzie Friend in England & Wales is not allowed to address the court nor in my opinion would it ever be desirable for this to occur at a later date.<br /><br />To do so would require a strict code of conduct by which those acting as a McKenzie Friend with a right of audience must adhere to,just as solicitors must adhere to the rules of court.<br /><br />Inevitably one person acting as a McKenzie Friend with a right of audience will ruin it for all.Surely no one would wish for that to happen.I certainly do not.<br /><br />Peter, you have linked the guidance from the President of the Family Division often enough so I would direct those who are misquoting the rules governing the use in England & Wales to Page 3 of that document under the heading "What a McKenzie Friend may not do"<br /><br />"A MF is not entitled to address the court, nor examine any witnesses. A MF who does so becomes an advocate and requires the grant of a right of <br />audience."<br /><br />A McKenzie Friend and an Advocate are entirely separate matters.Please do no confuse one with the other as in my opinion,granting rights of audience to McKenzie Friends opens the possibility to ruin the facility for all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-46009854641283484072010-02-20T15:16:10.426+00:002010-02-20T15:16:10.426+00:00# Anonymous @ 4.27pm
Yes, on orders of Kenny MacA...# Anonymous @ 4.27pm<br /><br />Yes, on orders of Kenny MacAskill by the sounds of it ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 5.28pm<br /><br />Yes, Scotland's justice system is well behind the times ... over 100 years behind the times according to Lord Brian Gill (the Lord Justice Clerk)<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 6.23pm<br /><br />Its a danger .. there will have to be rules governing the rights of audience part of it, should this idea of the Scottish Government materialise (I dont believe MSPs will support it in its current draft form)<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 8.43pm<br /><br />You should be able to obtain the services of a solicitor for a criminal case although if you have difficulty I might be able to recommend one for you. Post a further comment with contact details, marked "Do not Publish".<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 9.30pm<br /><br />Indeed yes ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 9.42pm<br /><br />I am not an elephant ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 10.08pm<br /><br />I certainly agree with your comments .. there should indeed be an investigation into exactly why McKenzie Friends have been kept out of Scottish courts for the past 40 years.<br /><br />40 years is a long time to deny people access to justice .. that much deserves to be debated ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 10.47pm<br /><br />Yes .. courts in Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh and several smaller regional courts are giving out conflicting information to litigants ... some say McKenzie Friends dont and never will exist in Scotland, some say you can have them but not yet and others say we have always had them just that no one has ever thought once to ask for one in the 40 years McKenzie Friends are supposed to have existed after their introduction in England & Wales in 1970 ...<br /><br />Asking for the stats on McKenzie Friends use or requests in Scotland also drew a blank to the tune of "Oh, we don't collate that kind of information".<br /><br />A shambles indeed ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 11.17am<br /><br />I believe the polite description of Mr Don's analysis of the petition is ... "misinformation" ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 11.18am<br /><br />One gigantic omission ... considering what is under debate ...<br /><br /># Anonymous @ 1.24pm<br /><br />Thanks ... and I can assure you the Scottish legal establishment have a litany of black marks against them .. hence the stale state of Scottish justice - virtually non-existent, non-accessible to the people, and about as far from honest as we are from the moon ...Diary of Injusticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00697476580161690118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-75634404027157731002010-02-20T13:24:14.657+00:002010-02-20T13:24:14.657+00:00Hi Peter
I've read all your postings about th...Hi Peter<br /><br />I've read all your postings about the McKenzie Friend issue since April 2009.<br /><br />We are nearly one year on so clearly the Parliament and courts have been playing for time.If this had been truly wanted it could have and should have been in within a week of suggestion.What a pit it takes a blogger a litigant and a petitioner to get things rolling in Scotland.<br /><br />Good work,A big feather in your cap and a big black mark against the legal establishment of Scotland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-5647549503607183722010-02-20T11:18:58.138+00:002010-02-20T11:18:58.138+00:00Nigel Don appears to have again been economical wi...Nigel Don appears to have again been economical with the truth, for example he 'forgets to mention' in his parliamentary biography that he possess a degree in law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-28057097567431870312010-02-20T11:17:17.120+00:002010-02-20T11:17:17.120+00:00It is Nigel Don who has 'deliberately' got...It is Nigel Don who has 'deliberately' got the wrong end of the stick and misrepresented the petition.<br /><br />Nowhere does it say in the petition that the petitioner wishes to exclude from his appliction any of the practise accepted by the Courts in England and Wales - which includes allowing a nominated person seeking to address the Court on behalf of an unrepresented party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-20457898211377850722010-02-20T10:14:23.820+00:002010-02-20T10:14:23.820+00:00Comment at 10:08pm
I agree.40 years and they just...Comment at 10:08pm<br /><br />I agree.40 years and they just give it to us after Peter's reporting and the petition.<br /><br />There MUST be an inquiry about this when everyone else had it for all that time<br /><br />Brilliant work Peter!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-62644192081446681332010-02-19T22:47:09.779+00:002010-02-19T22:47:09.779+00:00I'm curious about Nigel Don.
Is he really try...I'm curious about Nigel Don.<br /><br />Is he really trying to blame Hamilton for that double definition of a McKenzie Friend or is this just another delaying mission to prevent more McKenzie Friends in Scottish courts ?<br /><br />Also you said some people are still being told they cant have a McKenzie Friend even after the first ruling on it?<br /><br />What a shambles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-67755718433174247262010-02-19T22:08:53.213+00:002010-02-19T22:08:53.213+00:00How they get away with keeping Scotland in the dar...How they get away with keeping Scotland in the dark ages for 40 years out of this McKenzie Friend subject is a disgrace.<br />Even though I see you also exposed its first use last year I think we should all be asking WHY Scotland has had to do without this not just lets bring it in.<br /><br />Good work Peter keep it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20722989.post-47455093400063883822010-02-19T21:42:20.484+00:002010-02-19T21:42:20.484+00:00Well covered thanks.Watched the video.Was Margo hi...Well covered thanks.Watched the video.Was Margo hinting at the elephant in the room (you) when she made that little joke ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com